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Redefining Dementia
resources and helpful life experiences, the podcast will look to connect with the audience to provide helpful and meaningful takeaways.
Redefining Dementia
Dr. Patricia Morris: Rethinking Dementia as Neurodivergence & Care Through Connection
Dr. Patricia Morris from the University of New Brunswick joins us to challenge traditional narratives about dementia. What if dementia isn’t just a disease but a unique form of neurodivergence that calls for a fresh, more compassionate perspective? In this thought-provoking episode, we explore how shifting our understanding can transform dementia care from symptom management to a journey rooted in connection, dignity, and belonging.
Dr. Morris is an Assistant Professor in the Faculty of Nursing at the University of New Brunswick (UNB). She earned her Bachelor of Nursing (BN) in 2015 and Master of Nursing (MN) in 2021 from UNB. In 2021, she was awarded the prestigious Vanier Canada Graduate Scholarship, valued at $50,000 per year for three years, to support her doctoral research in gerontological nursing. Her research focuses on the experiences of residents with dementia who decline personal hygiene care in long-term care facilities, exploring the complexities of autonomy, power, and vulnerability in these interactions. Dr. Morris’s work aims to enhance person-centered care practices and improve the quality of life for older adults living with cognitive impairments.
Together, we discuss the power of language in shaping perceptions, the importance of truly knowing a person’s history and preferences, and how safety extends beyond the physical to include emotional well-being. Dr. Morris shares practical strategies for fostering trust, co-regulation, and meaningful relationships—reminding us that caregiving is not just about support, but about honouring the rich narratives of those living with dementia.
In This Episode, We Explore:
• Dementia as a syndrome rather than a singular disease
• The significance of viewing dementia through the lens of neurodivergence
• How language influences perceptions and experiences
• The role of social connection in combating isolation
• Prioritizing felt safety in care partnerships
• Practical strategies for co-regulation in caregiving
• Maintaining relationships and trust in dementia care
• A vision for a future where individuals feel safe, valued, and seen
About our Hosts:
https://www.personcentreduniverse.com/about/
Welcome to Season 2 of Redefining Dementia. I'm Jana Jones and I am thrilled to be joined by my co-hosts, daphne Noonan and Ashley King for another season of fresh conversations, new insights and valuable tips on navigating dementia care.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Daphne. This season, we're diving even deeper into topics that matter, from caregiver resilience to meaningful engagement. Plus, we'll have a fantastic lineup of experts to share their wisdom.
Speaker 3:And I'm Ashley At Person Centred Universe. We help you provide person-centered dementia care at home, work or in your community. Through this podcast, our goal is really to strive toward a better world for those affected by dementia by sharing resources and insights from experts around the world.
Speaker 1:We are also introducing a new format this season with rotating co-hosts. You'll hear from each of us as we take turns leading discussions with incredible guests, some familiar faces and some exciting new voices.
Speaker 2:So, before we begin, just a special note the information that we share in this podcast is for educational purposes only. If you or someone you know is experiencing symptoms of dementia, we'd encourage you to seek medical advice from a qualified healthcare professional.
Speaker 3:So don't forget to hit that subscribe button and join us every other Thursday as we explore the many dimensions of dementia care. One conversation at a time.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to Redefining Dementia. I'm Jana Jones and on this episode, ashley King and I had the privilege of speaking with Dr Patricia Morris. Dr Morris is a researcher and educator at the University of New Brunswick, where she has dedicated her work to understanding the experiences of people living with dementia and the complexities of providing compassionate care. Her insights come not just from research, but from a deep respect for the humanity at the heart of dementia care. In today's episode, dr Morris invites us to consider a different perspective. What if we viewed dementia not as a disease to be feared, but as a form of neurodivergence? How might that shift the way we understand, support and connect with people living with dementia? This conversation is about challenging old narratives, embracing dignity and rethinking what it means to truly care for someone. It's about finding hope and understanding in places we may not have looked before. We're so glad you're here with us for this conversation. It's one you don't want to miss. Let's get started.
Speaker 3:Hi Patricia, it's wonderful to have you today. Thank you so much for joining us, thanks for having me. It's been wonderful to watch you through your thesis and now as a professor, and we're really excited to talk to you about one of our favorite topics today. And so let's start with kind of your view on dementia as a condition or otherwise, or opening up your view to that. So dementia is often referred to as a single, definitive condition. Can you help unpack for our listeners why it's more accurate to describe dementia as a syndrome or an experience rather than a singular thing, and what inspired you to start thinking about dementia in this way?
Speaker 4:So I was actually having this conversation yesterday where someone who is very outside of the caring field he works in technology and he is helping me create a bit of a video project about dementia and some of the better ways to approach people who are living with dementia, who are in the hospital and you know, the first question out of his mouth was what's the difference between Alzheimer's and dementia? And even at that basic level, I think that there's a misunderstanding that dementia is something in and of itself, that it's something that you get, or it's something even that you catch, rather than a condition that results from a disease process. And I think that's a really widespread misunderstanding about dementia is that it's a disease in and of itself and we talk about it as if it is right. So we'll say things like he has dementia, she has dementia, that's because of the dementia, and we talk about it as if it's this unified, universal experience that people have. They have dementia rather than talking about it as sort of an experience, a different way of being in the world than that person has grown accustomed to. So it certainly is a change in how people interact with the world, in how people think, in how they move their bodies through space.
Speaker 4:All of that is impacted is impacted, but it's not some sort of large disease that you have, you know. It's a collection of symptoms. Perhaps, if you want to think about it like that, it's a collection of symptoms that people might live with, and everyone lives with their own variety of symptoms. And I think there is a really widespread misperception that dementia is something you have. And when we start to talk about dementia as something you have, as something that exists outside of the human experience, then I think we get into some really troublesome areas.
Speaker 4:We get into some areas where we talk about people with dementia as if they're a certain, they're a subset of the population, that they don't walk among us, but that they're separate from society, that they live with this condition that sets them apart. And I think for me, one of my main goals and the way that I think about people who are living with this collection of symptoms we call dementia is to think about that as part of the human experience. And that, for me, is a really profound shift in the way that we've talked about dementia. In the past, We've talked about it in a very medical sense and I'm much more interested in talking about it as just another way of experiencing the world. It might be a negative way of experiencing the world for some people, but it doesn't have to be a negative experience. It's just different from what the person has experienced before.
Speaker 3:And I find that it's. This is such an interesting when, when I first read you know aligning dementia with neurodivergence and instead of looking at it from you know, as a disease. I find the way that you describe it so valuable because it very much aligns with a lot of what we heard over previous podcasts that if you've met one person living with dementia, you've met one person living with dementia like very much considering, yeah, that this is. It's. The quicker we learn to look at the different symptoms that are exacerbated by dementia, right by someone's disease process, their cognitive changes, the better off we are to be able to then support inclusion to ensure that they maintain their social, emotional, community engagement and maintain that semblance of identity. Is that kind of? Am I summarizing that in a very short Coles Notes kind of way?
Speaker 4:Absolutely, and I think the big piece of that for me is that social isolation piece is that if we can think about it as a different way of experiencing the world, we open people up to many more social connections than we do. If we think of someone as diseased, it carries this connotation with it that is just very, very negative. That I think, even at the level of language, just feeds into this social isolation and sometimes the social death we talk about, the social death of people. You know that they're living in the world but they don't have those social connections that are necessary to support well being. I just really think shifting our focus toward people's experiences is a way forward in that.
Speaker 1:Trisha, I know many of us understand that language of course impacts, whether positively or negatively, the way that we perceive the people in the world around us, and the concept of dementia is no different when it comes to language. So you've raised concerns about how our language surrounding dementia frames it as a disease, about how our language surrounding dementia frames it as a disease. So how do you think defining it as a singular disease impacts society's approach to understanding and supporting those with dementia?
Speaker 4:So this is something that came up a lot. I did some research with acute care nurses and their experiences of working with people who are living with dementia in hospital and their experiences of working with people who are living with dementia in hospital. And oftentimes I would hear those nurses say, well, that's because of the dementia. And oftentimes what they were expressing as part of the dementia could easily be understood as a very human response to what's going on. So, for instance, talking about resistance to care, so someone might resist getting washed by a caregiver that they do not know.
Speaker 4:Now, part of my human experience is that I do not wish to be washed by people I do not know.
Speaker 4:That is part of my lived experience as a human being that I do not wish to have that. But if I had the label of living with dementia, that would be distilled down to resistance to care that I, because I have dementia, do not want. I don't want to get washed. I have some sort of objection to hygiene because of my dementia. I have some sort of objection to hygiene because of my dementia, when actually that's a very human experience, a very valid experience, to having someone approach you and say I want to wash you and potentially know that that person's willing to force it If you say no. That's a very, very intimate experience that I don't wish to share, even with my partner. I don't wish to be washed and so to have that very intimate experience just be dismissed as a sign or a symptom of my disease process is. It's just absolutely dehumanizing. And I think we do that all too often. We say you know, that's just the dementia, without looking at the conditions that human beings are living in.
Speaker 1:That's such an important way of looking at it and, whether this is a fair comparison or not, even when you look at somebody with children who might be neurodivergent, when you relate to them in a human way that you're talking about it strips away those labels and helps you be able to parent in a different way. When you're relating to them on that human level, and if we take that perspective, when interacting with people living with dementia who may be experiencing those challenging moments that we all would experience as a human being, no matter what our label or condition or lack of condition is, that's such a powerful way of connecting. So I really appreciate you connecting those dots, for us in that way.
Speaker 3:Mm. Hmm, it's so profound because, at the crux of it, it's really. You know, we talk about person centered care and and all of these buzzwords as it relates to especially in formal, formalized care settings. You know, we talk about ensuring that we're providing person centered care, that we have person directed care, people have identity. You know, there's so many buzzwords and language, but really, again, it ties back to so many individualized experiences that each person has, you know, compiled throughout their life.
Speaker 3:And you know, jana and I both are strong students of narrative gerontology and narrative care and I think it ties really closely to that that we are each comprised of these stories and history and information that, regardless of what disease, any disease that we're experiencing, that we still need to communicate our needs and we still need to communicate our wants and we still need to communicate who we are and what we accept and what we don't accept, and when we don't have that communication anymore, that ability to communicate, it's just, yeah, I find it so valuable. It's just yeah, I find it so valuable. And so I wanted to ask maybe a bit more direct question, because we've been talking about it, but I think it's really valuable for our listeners, for you to to better describe or more deeply describe dementia as a form of neurodivergence or looking at dementia in a similar way to the way that we look at neurodivergence, and so can you explain what you mean by that and how this perspective really shifts the way we think about the condition?
Speaker 4:Absolutely so. I used to work in a geriatric medicine clinic and part of the work of that was the actual diagnosis of those diseases and disorders that cause dementia, and so I came from this very medicalized place. And it's interesting you bring up children, jenna, because this is deeply rooted in my experience of parenting a neurodivergent child. My child lives with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. I adopted him when he was two and the experience of parenting him has dramatically shifted how I think about dementia and neurodivergence, just been moving more and more away from that, because the value in the diagnosis is absolutely. People do need the diagnosis, they need to understand, they need to put a frame around what they're experiencing and so not to devalue that piece. But I think so much of the way that we think about living with dementia is about living with memory loss, but living with these cognitive disabilities an inability to think through what needs to be done to manage finances and inability to think through what needs to be done in order to drive and actually what I see in my day to day work with my son, as well as in my day-to-day work with people who are living with dementia is that that cognitive piece? Yes, it's important, absolutely, and it helps people understand what's happening in their lives to have that diagnosis.
Speaker 4:But what's most prevalent for me is that people's threat responses are over activated when they're living with dementia. So the areas of the brain that are injured when someone is living with dementia means that they're not when they look around, for they're looking around an unfamiliar environment, for example. Look around, for they're looking around an unfamiliar environment, for example, they're unable to discern what. What in that environment is a threat. They're, for instance, in a hospital room and none of it is familiar and none of the people are familiar, and everywhere they look, something is scary. Often people experience this in their homes as well.
Speaker 4:Things become very unfamiliar. And so, thinking about that activated threat response in dementia, our fight flight freeze reflex is right there, it's right at the surface, ready to be activated. Because things are so unfamiliar, because things are confusing because we don't remember, things are so unfamiliar because things are confusing because we don't remember. All of those pieces are coming together to make us very, very prone to be hyper aroused. So something small shifts and our threat response is right there at the surface, ready to be enacted. And so often what that means is that people are operating from a place where they don't have an internal sense of felt safety. They don't feel safe, and so each new thing that's happening it's not about their resisting care or their responsive behaviors they're calling out. What's happening is that they're activated, that their threat response is active they don't know where the threat is coming from, necessarily and that our primary goal as caregivers, informal caregivers and formal caregivers is to help people experience this internal sense of felt safety. That what really is happening here. When I ask someone if they want to get washed and they say absolutely not, no, I don't want to do that. Or if I say, you know, come on to my grandmother, let's go do such and such and she immediately says, no, I don't want to do that. What's happening there is that her threat response is activated, and so I think my job as a nurse and as a formal caregiver is to help people decrease.
Speaker 4:Their threat response is. It's not to convince someone to do what I want them to do. It's not to tell someone hey, you need to get up and get dressed. It's to convince them with my body language and with my approach that they are safe, because a lot of the time they're feeling unsafe and that's the major problem it's not the cognition, it's not that people can't drive anymore, it's not that you know they're unable to do X, y and Z. It's that they don't feel safe on a day-to-day basis, routinely, do not feel safe in their environments. That's the problem that I see needs to be addressed over and over and over again is that people don't feel safe, and the only way that they can feel safe is through a relational approach, is that we become the people who signal to them they are safe, and we can talk about it later. But there are some very practical tips to help people, to signal to them you are safe. And I think if, if we use those tips more often, we would see that people are living better.
Speaker 1:That is so fascinating, patricia, and what you're speaking to reminds me of what I often read about in terms of co-regulation Never really thought of it from the perspective of family and friend care giver being able to be that safe space and able to, I guess, relate to the person living with dementia who is in that, whether it be a fight or flight mode or just they're escalated and they need that co-regulation. So, yeah, I would love for you to expand on your practical tips and tricks and wisdom for those individuals who may be looking for ways to look at interacting with their loved one living with dementia in a way that allows them to co-regulate and share their calmness with that person, if that makes sense their calmness with that person.
Speaker 4:If that makes sense, yeah, absolutely so. It helps to know a bit about the brain and the areas of the brain that are impacted by dementia. So often, when we are talking about the diseases that result in dementia, we're talking about damage to the front parts of our brain. So those higher level cognitive processes, you know, the ability to think through reason, through plan, those kinds of things those are primarily what's affected by dementia. And at the back of our brain is our reptilian brain. That's where our fight flight freeze system sits. Okay, so it, it's there and it's very. It's called the reptilian brain If you do much reading about it, and it it's the brain that you need your. You need your frontal part of your brain in order to calm down that back part. Okay, so that back part is there's a lion in the building, and then you're the front parts of your brain to you know, put it very simply, say no, there's not actually a lion, you are safe. But if those front parts are damaged, the ability for that person to say to their reptilian brain, no, there's no lion here is impaired, and so they need someone who will stand alongside of them and be that, be that piece and I think that's the connection I see with my son who lives with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. We often talk about. My son is needing someone called an external brain to help him make safe choices, and he'll often say I, he's five, I need you to help him make safe choices, and he'll often say he's five, I need you to help me make good choices. He'll say that and he recognizes that because his threat response is so activated all of the time and he's unable to intervene himself. And so often what people need and I heard this over and over in the interviews I did with acute care nurses is that there was that one nurse who was able to access whatever needed to be done, that one nurse that when they came on you just thought, okay, it's going to be okay, that person can handle this. And so that co-regulation piece, that ability to signal to someone that they are safe when their brains, because of the damage that is caused by the diseases that cause dementia, is unable to do it for themselves. So they need an external brain of sorts to say, hey, things are okay. And there's some great research in polyvagal theory. If anyone is ever interested, stephen Porges is great and his emerging research is really profound, but some of the approaches that he suggests.
Speaker 4:Because when we're signaling to our reptilian brain, we're not signaling in the same way as we're signaling to our front brain. We're not saying you are safe, because the reptilian brain doesn't understand that language. The reptilian brain is a reptile. It needs you to signal those things with your body, with your face, with what you do and how you move through space. It doesn't respond to reason, and so when we're signaling with our bodies to people that they're safe, there are a few things that we can do. So Stephen Porges has found that when we ourselves are activated, so as caregivers, we're in that what are we going to do? I don't know. I don't know how to approach this kind of place.
Speaker 4:When we're activated, the area around our eyes loses movement.
Speaker 4:We stop moving our eyebrows, it becomes a very static place in our face, and so a practical tip, which just sounds very I know it sounds very out there but a practical tip if you're feeling activated in the presence of someone who's living with dementia is to move your eyebrows.
Speaker 4:Intentionally move your eyebrows and signal to the person, because it will signal to their reptilian brain oh, this person is in a threat, they have the ability to control the part of the face that becomes uncontrollable when they're activated, and so that's one simple way that we can signal to that reptile that they're safe.
Speaker 4:Another way is to get physically lower than that person, and so we often talk about sitting down beside a person as a way of relating to them. And I'm saying get lower, get right down to the floor, be that nurse, be that caregiver who is actively trying to put that person above you, because that signals to the person, to their reptilian brain, that they have autonomy, that they are the ones who are in control, that they are the ones calling the shots and that you are not a threat. And that's a very basic body language thing that is pretty easily achievable, even in homes. If someone's standing up, sit down. Don't stand up to be next to them. Sit down. That's a way to signal to their brains that you are not a threat, that you are a comforting place for them to land, because those are usually very cognitive approaches.
Speaker 4:They're very much rooted in trying to convince someone, to gently persuade them to do what you want them to do, and what I'm saying first is that you need to signal to that person that you are not a threat.
Speaker 3:This is so, and I know I feel like I've said this a hundred times already, but this is just so interesting for people, whether it be in formal care settings or informal care settings, what you're describing from a very primal level makes complete sense, right, like I'm a very you know. I know you don't see my face, it's a podcast but I'm like a very expressive person. I've got big eyes, I've got thick eyebrows, right. So when I'm going in to meet with somebody, that's exactly what you know. I'm very expressive with my face.
Speaker 3:So when I'm going in to meet with somebody, that's exactly what you know I'm very expressive with my face.
Speaker 3:I'm doing it right now, actually.
Speaker 3:But and then I've also seen in action just how important it is to be lower than somebody, to open yourself up.
Speaker 3:Right, and we hear this from so many, so many experts in the dementia, the field of dementia, right, that you know you have to do this, you have to try this practice, this, but this really actually describes the why of the intention of being supportive to somebody's reptile brain, which I find so interesting anyway, and really so you're really doing a great job of describing for us the importance of how we approach people. And then the other thing I wanted to maybe share as well is, just because you know we often say that just because you've built a rapport with somebody, I would suspect that making sure that you're continually upholding that contract with the person living with dementia, that just because out of 101 days you've gotten down low, you know you've been really expressive, you've built that bond and that relationship, doesn't mean that you get that you can pull back on those expressions and those approaches that you've just described. I expect that it's constantly evolving and you're constantly having to maintain that Well, the reptile doesn't have memory either.
Speaker 4:Yeah right Reptile doesn't remember that you did it 101 times before. All it recognizes is that right here and right now, you're speaking too quickly, you're moving too quickly. You're standing above the person you are. You know the middle of your face is absolutely frozen, even though you have a smile on your face. That's what the reptilian brain is seeing. It's not seeing all the 15 times that you've done it before that. So it is about consistency and approach. But you can also change that approach. If you go in and things aren't going well, that's okay too. You can just start. Everyone's not going to go in and do things perfectly the first time. And you know, sometimes we'll approach people and we'll think, oh my goodness, this is going very poorly and it's not too late to institute those measures. It's not too late to move your eyebrows around and get below the person yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you for that, and I think it's it's so valuable that you've taken such a concept, you know such an academic concept and drilled it down so anybody can apply it in really real and measurable ways. Okay, so this is the second to the last question. Already, I don't want this to end. So if this perspective were widely adopted, how do you think it could change the way caregivers, families and communities support people living with dementia?
Speaker 4:I go back to that feeling of felt safety. When someone feels safe, their caregivers feel good. When someone doesn't feel safe, caregivers don't feel good. It feels awful for everybody involved. And so I think if we could start to think about and prioritize safety as our baseline. So our goal of nursing care, or our goal of caring for a person, is not to get X, y and Z done, it's just not. Our goal is for them to feel consistently safe in our presence, and that is the only thing that matters, because if they can feel safe in our presence, the rest will follow. You know, they may not feel like getting a shower right now, sure, but if they can feel consistently safe in our presence, consistently feel that if they wanted to branch into taking a shower or doing whatever, that you would be there, that you would support them, that they would have your face, it just opens up a whole world that is foreclosed. When we start thinking about how can we gently persuade someone to do something that we want them to do. That's not the goal. The goal here is for people to feel consistently safe, and there's no one, especially with acute care nurses. They'll often say, like, what about the families? You know, if we don't get their loved one up and washed and dressed and ready for the day, what will their families think? And I'll often turn that around and say what would the families think if they knew that that person felt so deeply unsafe in your presence that they cried, that they resisted your care, that they felt unsafe? That's not something that you want to tell families. You don't want to say your loved one, because of my actions, feels consistently unsafe in my care. That's an unacceptable thing to tell a family, and so I like to reframe it like that so, because your dad is not dressed today, I am sorry that he's not dressed today, but I can tell you that he's felt consistently safe here and that's what's important. And we will get the washing done. We will. But the goal here is for him to feel safe, and he didn't feel safe enough today to do that, and that's okay.
Speaker 4:We often talk about situations where we urgently need to get things done. You know, someone's been incontinent of stool, for example, and we need to get right in there and make sure that we clean up that bowel movement as quickly as possible. Uphold their human dignity, absolutely Sure. Yes, we need to do that, but you know how we'll get that done by that person feeling safe enough to say, hey, I've had a poo in my pants and I need help cleaning it up. We're not going to get there by saying, oh goodness, you have had an accident and you wouldn't want someone to smell that. That's a cognitive piece that just isn't, isn't accessible for most people. When they're in that fight, flight, freeze space, they need someone to be there, to be that face to say something really embarrassing and troubling has happened. Can you help me? I trust you to help me.
Speaker 3:And you can. I mean I'll pass it over to Jana for the last question that we ask all of our guests. But you know, you can feel it, when people have built those relationships, have worked hard to encourage and support safety for people living with dementia residents in long term care, home care, you know family members, you can feel it and you can see it, it's tangible, right, you can recognize that. That social contract, if you will, between two people, social contract, if you will, between two people, you know, even if it's informed, like I should, I say even, but informal and informal care settings. And so, yeah, I think the sooner that we recognize just how important it is, like you said, to build those relationships and they need to be rebuilt every day again, like it could be that every day you're rebuilding that relationship but the sooner we realize how place importance on that over the delivery of a bath or, you know, making sure that their teeth are brushed, the more likely we are to be successful in providing great quality care. Yeah, I really appreciate that. Thanks, tricia.
Speaker 1:That's so true. I've learned such an incredible amount from you, tricia, in this short conversation. And, of course, our hearts are person-centered care and a lot of the time we think of a lot of words happening. With person-centered care, we think of trying to meet that person's emotional needs in their hearts and all of the tasks that we need to do to care for them properly, upholding their dignity by making sure they get that bath.
Speaker 1:But what you're talking about really is getting to the heart of that person-centered care, because with dementia, so much is stripped away that person is still that person, but so much is stripped away that we really do need to, as you're saying, satisfy those primal needs in order for us to lead to successfully satisfying all the other needs that encompasses them as a whole person. And, yeah, that's my really big takeaway from today. So I thank you so, so much, and I'm sure that our listeners want us to have you back again to learn some of this, some of these amazing tips that you've provided to us that I know Ashley and I both probably will be employing in the future. So this is our last question that we ask every guest and we would love to hear your answer to this, which is what is your hope for the future for people affected by dementia.
Speaker 4:My hope is really simple is that each and every person who is living with dementia experiences a deep sense of peace, that they feel safe, that they feel safe. That is all that consistently, on a day-to-day basis. They feel safe, they feel at peace. The rest doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:The rest we can figure out. That makes my heart sing. I don't know what else to say to that Amazing. It has been a true pleasure. Dr Patricia Morris, thank you so much and, as Jana said, I hope we get to see you and chat with you again.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much. Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Redefining Dementia podcast. We hope the insights shared today leave you feeling empowered and connected, no matter where you are on the dementia journey, whether you are living with dementia or you are a care partner, a professional or an advocate. Together, we can continue shifting the conversation.
Speaker 3:This season. We're grateful for the opportunity to bring you new voices and perspectives. As always, we strive to offer practical tips and heartfelt stories that resonate with your experience.
Speaker 2:A huge thank you to our incredible guests who generously share their time and knowledge with us, and to everyone behind the scenes. Our music is written and produced by Scott Holmes, and this podcast was produced by Jana Jones. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss our upcoming episodes. And, as always, let's keep redefining dementia together.
